#jython IRC Log

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IRC Log for 2015-06-11

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[7:50] <ztane> gthank: if no one else stated it, there is Jython 3 fork with upcoming jython 3.5, now of course the problem is that the ppl doing dev are busy elsewhere...
[7:50] <ztane> gthank: and my PyBytes patch and others are pretty much hanging right now...
[7:50] <ztane> https://github.com/jython/jython3
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[13:35] <gthank> How have I never heard of py4j? And also, how live can it be if it's still hosted on sourceforge?
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[15:48] <dbbb> gthank: thats an existential question
[15:48] <dbbb> .. how can I have not heard of ...
[15:49] <gthank> Back in my Java days, I kept up with some fairly obscure projects, and this never even crossed my radar
[15:50] <dbbb> hi gthank -- lets start over.. I am just two months into neo4j, no Java background but a lot of software development in C / Python
[15:50] <dbbb> I looked at the python interfaces right away
[15:51] <dbbb> if you have a RESTful interface, its less tightly coupled to changes in minor versions
[15:52] <dbbb> another data point - I gave a talk two weeks ago to some colleagues.. about 12 people sitting there.. probably 80% had PhDs and are active *in data science now*
[15:52] <dbbb> I said "how many of you have heard of a graph database.. two said yes
[15:53] <dbbb> I said "how many have used a graph database for non-trivial modeling" .. no one
[15:53] <dbbb> now is that sample bias because I am in that crowd, and I dont have that background ? so they are similar .. maybe
[15:54] <gthank> Almost certainly any data points we can provide are small enough samples that sample bias would dominate
[15:54] <gthank> By way of comparison: I mostly did OLTP stuff in web apps for Java, and I knew about graph databases, and neo4j by name
[15:55] <gthank> And I was the only one on my (admittedly small team) for which that was probably the case
[15:57] <dbbb> ok - so how can we make progress today
[15:58] <gthank> It was really an expression of surprise that I hadn't heard of the project, which has clearly been around for a while
[15:58] <gthank> Combined with a little snark about SourceForge
[15:59] <dbbb> I thinnk a lot of people are shocked at the consolidation around GitHub
[15:59] <dbbb> SourceForge is old in the tooth sure, but to be literally a symbol of something that is outdated..
[16:00] <dbbb> and even the bright knights of Google threw in the towel with Google Code hosting
[16:00] <dbbb> I run a Linux distro with a few others.. I dont trust GitHub
[16:00] <dbbb> we are on it now.. moving to our own git "soon"
[16:01] <gthank> SourceForge brought it on themselves
[16:01] <gthank> Their pages just got heavier and less usable for practically a decade
[16:02] <dbbb> yes - but lets get back to neo4j
[16:02] <gthank> And now with the "we're repackaging 'abandoned' projects with ad-based installers"
[16:02] <gthank> Anywho: you like neo4j?
[16:02] <dbbb> sorry I meant jython, but yes I slipped.. neo4j is one of my targets
[16:03] <dbbb> here is my confession.. I have not been able to run the jython source code test in java, individually
[16:03] <gthank> I'm a Jython fan, so I'm glad to see the velocity picking back up
[16:03] <dbbb> 2.7 has enormous potential
[16:04] <dbbb> it might be *better* than plain python for some things I do with postgres
[16:04] <gthank> Because of the JDBC driver?
[16:04] <dbbb> no GIL
[16:04] <dbbb> have you heard of JDBI ?
[16:04] <gthank> To me, the best parts are no GIL and ridiculously advanced GC
[16:05] <gthank> JDBI? Doesn't ring a bell
[16:05] <dbbb> you havent heard of JDBI !!?!
[16:05] <dbbb> ;-)
[16:05] <dbbb> gotcha
[16:05] <gthank> That wasn't one of the areas I had an interest in
[16:05] <gthank> As opposed to letting me write more Python than Java :-P
[16:06] <dbbb> teasing
[16:06] <dbbb> morning here, sorry
[16:06] <gthank> It's just now noon for me
[16:06] <dbbb> I can run ant in the top level of the jython src dir, and an enormous number of tests run
[16:07] <dbbb> but I dont know how to run the java tests individually
[16:07] <dbbb> I have eclipse kepler or luna, openJDK 7
[16:07] <dbbb> too much ttime trying small experiments
[16:07] <dbbb> days are going by
[16:07] <dbbb> the python I have a much better grasp on
[16:08] <dbbb> thats why I responded to your py4j line
[16:08] <gthank> I haven't set up a jython dev env in a while, so I'm trying to remember
[16:08] <dbbb> I also have a /usr/local/jython on two or three machines
[16:09] <dbbb> which works fine.. Linux and Mac OSX
[16:09] <dbbb> last night I was looking at the sample web app
[16:09] <dbbb> I have to make a demo.. demo or die
[16:09] <gthank> I *think* it's using the standard JUnit ant task, so let me go grab some docs on that
[16:10] <gthank> And do you really need to run the test suite, or will the installer be good enough?
[16:10] <dbbb> jython-bb6cababa5bd
[16:10] <dbbb> thats the exact git repo I cloned, I believe its basically 2.7
[16:13] <gthank> dbbb This is old, but probably still accurage, as this part of the Java ecosystem is pretty stable https://today.java.net/pub/a/today/2003/09/12/individual-test-cases.html
[16:14] * dbbb reads
[16:21] <dbbb> on my super fast machine, the jython tests take 17 minutes to run
[16:21] <dbbb> I think jython beat node.js for the most tests I have ever seen
[16:32] <gthank> lol
[16:32] <gthank> Given some of the Java codebases I used to work on, I'm going to call that a "good problem to have"
[16:33] <gthank> I'm off to lunch, but if you have any questions, I'll try to check back in when I'm done
[16:33] <gthank> Also, you might get answers from somebody who actually knows what they're doing before I get back :-)
[16:36] <dbbb> :-)
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[17:12] <jimbaker> pjenvey, right, same security hole. i'm pretty sure someone could integrate jython with py4j as well :) really just a simple remote python execution engine that works with java
[18:53] <ztane> I'd say Python 3.5 would have lots of potential ... :P
[18:54] <ztane> nudge nudge, wink wink.
[18:55] <ztane> the problem with Jython so far as I have used it was that it wasn't really that special in 2.5 and now 2.7 is out when no one should be using Python 2 for new projects :d
[19:03] <dbbb> ahem
[19:04] <dbbb> "intelligent people may disagree"
[19:17] <jimbaker> ztane, i certainly cannot wait until we have a jython 3.5 (or is 3.6) out
[19:18] <jimbaker> async/await/type hinting will work really well for jython, on java
[19:18] <jimbaker> but on the other hand, 2.7 was a pragmatic decision. we will get there :)
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