#jython IRC Log


IRC Log for 2015-05-07

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[9:10] <wlievens> can I instantiate a java primitive array of an exact type (i.e. byte[]) in jython?
[9:24] <agronholm> wlievens: use array.array()
[9:32] <wlievens> I ended up using jarray.zeros()
[9:34] <agronholm> wlievens: iirc jarray is deprecated
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[12:21] <grey_> http://www.jython.org/jythonbook/en/1.0/JythonAndJavaIntegration.html Floating points are missing
[12:21] <grey_> Not a big thing, but it would help as I'm writing a comparison to JavaScript
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[16:00] <jimbaker> agronholm, wlievens - jarray is still useful because it has some functionality not available in array. they both wrap PyArray, so there's no actual difference
[16:00] <jimbaker> other than have two APIs to acccess
[16:01] <agronholm> ok
[16:18] <agronholm> jimbaker: I looked into powershell -- it looks like a dead end
[16:18] <agronholm> why? I tried to run a trivial PS1 script and execution access was denied.
[16:19] <agronholm> apparently the scripts should be signed with a certificate :P
[16:19] <jimbaker> agronholm, ack. well, we could sign it with a certificate. but that requires more investment in microsoft knowledge
[16:20] <xemdetia> agronholm, yes what people often forget is that powershell is a mechanism to push changes from AD and it's signed for integrity purposes. Most devs who use powershell day to day turn the signing off
[16:20] <jimbaker> i believe jeff allen is the only person who really knows windows, and he wisely is not working on this sort of thing
[16:20] <xemdetia> err, the sign check off
[16:20] <agronholm> scratch that, by default it doesn't seem to allow ANY scripts to run
[16:20] <xemdetia> yes, that's exactly correct
[16:20] <xemdetia> it's trying to prevent situations that you can accidentally double click on a batch script you download from the internet
[16:21] <xemdetia> and cause *evil things* to happen
[16:21] <jimbaker> if that's the case, then it is a dead end. the first step should not be, turn on powershell scripting
[16:21] <jimbaker> everyone should know what an exe is
[16:21] <jimbaker> and will have to trust us to do the right thing
[16:21] <jimbaker> at least if they want to use bin/ tools, including pip.exe etc
[16:22] <xemdetia> http://superuser.com/questions/106360/how-to-enable-execution-of-powershell-scripts
[16:22] <xemdetia> for some more colour commentary
[16:23] <jimbaker> one could use java org.python.util.jython -m pip install, etc, if no exe is desired
[16:23] <agronholm> what was the original reason for going to exe from .cmd?
[16:24] <jimbaker> because it worked :)
[16:24] <agronholm> ?
[16:24] <agronholm> what was not working with the .cmd?
[16:24] <jimbaker> seriously, that's the reason
[16:24] <jimbaker> ok, maybe more along the lines of, it works with self executing zip files on windows
[16:27] <jimbaker> see https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0441/, which describes python 3.5 functionality, but references this new functionality as of 2.6
[16:27] <jimbaker> setuptools uses something somewhat similar
[16:27] <jimbaker> so the takeaway is - this only works if jython is an exe, not a script
[16:28] <jimbaker> cmd or bat
[16:28] <jimbaker> i don't know about powershell fwiw
[16:30] <jimbaker> and fwiw, i just tried java ... org.python.util.jython -m pip install ... and that works just fine. whether that works in general is another question - depends on the given installed script and whether there is a module equivalent
[16:30] <xemdetia> powershell is a fine construct... for someone else
[16:30] <xemdetia> the whole signing stuff makes it so awkward day to day
[16:40] <xemdetia> you actually have to configure exchange through powershell at install right now, they got rid of the installer gui
[16:40] <xemdetia> afaik
[16:40] <xemdetia> anyway enough fun facts about powershell, time for lunch
[16:44] <jimbaker> xemdetia, wow, that's crazy talk to hear that microsoft abandons a gui approach... ;)
[16:52] <xemdetia> hey that was back quite a few years ago before 2012 was out
[16:52] <xemdetia> so who knows what's going on
[16:54] <xemdetia> I have moved away from windows since then D:
[16:56] <xemdetia> I only have to fix windows 10-20% of the time now as opposed to 90
[16:56] <xemdetia> but instead I have to support every unix
[17:01] <jimbaker> xemdetia, ahh, you should be able to give us insight then on how jython is working on aix, hpux, solaris...
[17:02] <xemdetia> I do not run jython on those as much
[17:02] <jimbaker> i used to have aix and solaris boxes in my basement, but i recycled this personal "computer history museum" a few years ago
[17:03] <jimbaker> xemdetia, hey, whatever you find out...
[17:03] <xemdetia> I have a req out for AIX box actually :< I do not know if it will ever happen
[17:04] <jimbaker> we had a bug that i may have fixed for hpux... the original poster never got back to me, so i presume it was because things were fixed
[17:04] <jimbaker> the OP was persistent until then
[17:05] <jimbaker> xemdetia, but if you ever have a chance to run jython -m test.regrtest -e, that would be awesome
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[17:05] <sdough> Congratulations on the 2.7.0 final release!
[17:07] <xemdetia> I will see if this accidentally happens
[17:07] <jimbaker> sdough, thanks! it seems to be working well for most people. no avalanche of bug reports, in other words
[17:08] <jimbaker> sdough, i think the biggest problem we have is that windows users who have non ascii user names cannot run ensurepip
[17:09] <sdough> Non-ASCII paths on Windows certainly are a frequent pain point, yeah.
[17:09] <jimbaker> i suppose that also applies to unix-like systems, but i don't even know if it's possible to have nonascii usernames in that case
[17:09] <sdough> That's a bug where something doesn't use appropriate encoding or what?
[17:09] <agronholm> console encoding is also messed up
[17:09] <sdough> Oh, it's specific to usernames, not file paths?
[17:10] <jimbaker> sdough, non-ascii paths work just fine - we do test that
[17:10] <jimbaker> so yes, just restricted to user names
[17:10] <jimbaker> http://bugs.jython.org/issue2348
[17:10] <jimbaker> i should update that bug
[17:12] <jimbaker> re-reading the orginal bug report, it's just jython, not ensurepip
[17:15] <agronholm> http://dropcanvas.com/qfsc3/1 <- this happens when I type ??????
[17:15] <sdough> Instead of NameError? Do you know where it's hanging? Is it not getting the newline somehow?
[17:16] <agronholm> sdough: who are you talking to?
[17:16] <sdough> You.
[17:17] <agronholm> I didn't press return
[17:17] <agronholm> but non-ascii characters used to work
[17:17] <sdough> Ah, okay. I misunderstood. So the characters are just wrong somehow.
[17:17] <sdough> Is that console encoding problems?
[17:17] <agronholm> well, you saw the screenshot and what I typed here
[17:17] <agronholm> totally different :)
[17:17] <agronholm> yeah
[17:18] <sdough> Is that something Jython can fix? Is there a bug filed?
[17:18] <agronholm> probably an issue with jline
[17:18] <agronholm> but I dunno, it used to work
[17:19] <sdough> In what version did it work?
[17:19] <jimbaker> works fine on ubuntu of course
[17:19] <agronholm> b3 I think
[17:19] <agronholm> yup, it's a windows only problem...once again :)
[17:19] <jimbaker> that's before we upgraded to jline2
[17:19] <agronholm> probably
[17:19] <jimbaker> yeah, no one really cares about windows. we just pretend to ;)
[17:19] <sdough> I understand that completely.
[17:20] <jimbaker> anyway, it's almost certainly an upstream issue in jline2
[17:20] <agronholm> if the pycon attendees are representative of python developers generally, then it's no wonder why windows bugs go undetected
[17:20] <agronholm> the vast majority had macs, a smaller portion had linux laptops
[17:20] <agronholm> only a few people with windows
[17:21] <jimbaker> that's been the case since i've been going to pycon, back in 2006
[17:22] <jimbaker> it's probably even more true in the sprints
[17:26] <jimbaker> fwierzbicki1, re github.com/jython/jython3 - i believe you should be able to just pull in from hg in your git client
[17:26] <fwierzbicki1> huh, interesting
[17:27] <agronholm> how did you set up the mirroring?
[17:28] <jimbaker> agronholm, darjus set it up iirc
[17:28] <jimbaker> back at europython
[17:28] <jimbaker> fwierzbicki1, actually that's the better approach
[17:28] <jimbaker> just pull from github.com/jythontools/jython
[17:29] <jimbaker> unlike the bitbucket mirror we have never had that mirror fail
[17:29] <jimbaker> i have used some hg integration with git. it worked. i cannot remember now
[17:29] <jimbaker> but if the mirror is there, that's the easy option
[17:29] <fwierzbicki1> oh ok that's pretty easy
[17:30] <fwierzbicki1> although: is there a reason we aren't just moving the whole beast over to github in the near term?
[17:32] <jimbaker> fwierzbicki1, i think it makes sense to do so ASAP
[17:32] <jimbaker> especially since the whole cpython tools infrastructure is delayed yet again
[17:32] <jimbaker> and that's just evaluating the plan... not implementation :)
[17:33] <fwierzbicki1> right - and we are not as big of a project, so removing the barrier to entry as github does is a bigger plus for us
[17:34] <fwierzbicki1> as our lib moves into theirs (I plan to start on that the moment I can get unittest working in Jython3) - people will still have to go through their process to make changes to Lib/* but that's ok
[17:35] <jimbaker> so part of the tooling that cpython tools plans to support is fully accepting github PRs
[17:35] <fwierzbicki1> ah that's interesting
[17:35] <jimbaker> but that's why it's so ambitious/complex
[17:35] <jimbaker> so yeah, we should be good
[17:36] <fwierzbicki1> yeah - that will probably take a year or more
[17:37] <jimbaker> exactly. and we have severe pain now. so time to fix :)
[17:37] <jimbaker> peke, now that you're back...
[17:37] <jimbaker> (i went skiing with peke this past weekend when he was in here in colorado the previous week)
[17:37] <fwierzbicki1> and I would guess the tooling for hg->git is probably pretty good
[17:38] <jimbaker> fully interconvertible
[17:38] <jimbaker> at least as enfored by the gateway we have with hg.python.org
[17:38] <fwierzbicki1> that's what I thought, so this could be less than a days work
[17:39] <jimbaker> exactly. the only thing that peke suggested we do is do some binary stripping, just to reduce history size
[17:39] <fwierzbicki1> sounds good
[17:40] <jimbaker> i see the point, so starting with jython3 now sounded like a good plan
[17:40] <jimbaker> and we can strip hg.python.org/jython when we have a chance
[17:40] <jimbaker> but... i also don't really care enough to delay more than a week eitehr
[17:40] <fwierzbicki1> I see - so I wouldn't convert, I would just drop jython3 in there raw?
[17:40] <jimbaker> "perfect is the enemy of the good", etc
[17:41] <jimbaker> fwierzbicki1, yes, i think that's safe to do
[17:41] <jimbaker> especially if you dump it into a branch, not master
[17:41] <fwierzbicki1> agronholm: you are the only other one working on that right now, does that sound fine to you?
[17:42] <fwierzbicki1> jimbaker: now I'm lost again :)
[17:42] <agronholm> ok so hold on
[17:42] <fwierzbicki1> agronholm: don't worry - this would be a weekend thing
[17:42] <agronholm> what exactly are you planning
[17:42] <fwierzbicki1> so plenty of time to talk :)
[17:42] <agronholm> moving jython3 to github? or...?
[17:42] <jimbaker> biab, i just want to make this happen... i'll let you guys figure out the plan
[17:43] <fwierzbicki1> ha - well I got a little lost
[17:43] <fwierzbicki1> agronholm: the ultimate plan would be to move all of Jython to github
[17:43] <agronholm> ok, but you intend to start with jython3?
[17:43] <fwierzbicki1> that's where Jim is losing me a little - I don't know what he means by making a branch
[17:44] <fwierzbicki1> but yeah, maybe just to see how working on Jython from github "feels"
[17:44] <jimbaker> fwierzbicki1, i mean inside of the github repo
[17:44] <fwierzbicki1> oh so just a subproject or whatever it is called
[17:44] <jimbaker> so the repo is github.com/jython/jython3
[17:44] <fwierzbicki1> got it
[17:44] <jimbaker> yep
[17:45] <agronholm> the organization name is jython, so jython/jython3 wouldn't be a branch
[17:45] <jimbaker> right
[17:45] <fwierzbicki1> agronholm: so we'd do that with no history - just to try it out. later we'd merge with the eventual github jython
[17:45] <agronholm> fwierzbicki1: why no history?
[17:45] <agronholm> you could locally convert from hg to git and then push
[17:45] <fwierzbicki1> well if we want history we should just do the conversion of the main Jython
[17:45] <agronholm> I've done that numerous times
[17:46] <fwierzbicki1> so it's easy?
[17:46] <jimbaker> history will be preserved regardless
[17:46] <agronholm> trivial even
[17:46] <agronholm> assuming nothing goes wrong with the conversion
[17:46] <jimbaker> agronholm, i nominate you to do this then :)
[17:46] <agronholm> wonky hg histories can be problematic
[17:46] <fwierzbicki1> heh - so we'd do this with Jython3 history and all
[17:47] <agronholm> lemme look
[17:47] <jimbaker> agronholm, we already have a good history in github.com/jythontools/jython
[17:47] <jimbaker> i think we are fine
[17:48] <fwierzbicki1> but that history is only of master - do we want old branches etc?
[17:49] <fwierzbicki1> oh maybe that's what "full-history" in the hg repo is
[17:50] <agronholm> ok I just ran the conversion but it failed because it found an anonymous branch
[17:51] <fwierzbicki1> yuck
[17:51] <agronholm> I'm using eclipse to visualize the history
[17:51] <agronholm> let's see what it finds
[17:52] <agronholm> hrm, it's revision 6115 which is tagged 2.5.2
[17:52] <agronholm> I wonder why it couldn't just use the tag for the branch name
[17:56] <agronholm> yeah so...it's trivial when it works on the first try :)
[17:56] <agronholm> thankfully this should be a lot less painful than the svn->hg conversion a few years ago
[17:58] <agronholm> "hg-fast-export supports multiple branches but only named branches with
[17:58] <agronholm> exactly one head each. Otherwise commits to the tip of these heads
[17:58] <agronholm> within the branch will get flattened into merge commits."
[17:59] <agronholm> the release branches are anonymous branches with just the head tagged
[18:02] <agronholm> trying another tool
[18:09] <agronholm> it's running now...let's see if we get branches other than master
[18:11] <fwierzbicki1> ah I see - doesn't sound too bad
[18:12] <jimbaker> don't we only have one head, per named branched in hg.python.org/jython - 2.2, 2.5, and tip?
[18:13] <agronholm> noap, there are several more
[18:13] <agronholm> hg heads -c
[18:15] <jimbaker> agronholm, oh i see. i should defer to those who know :)
[18:16] <jimbaker> xemdetia, so if you do inadvertently run those tests, please do inadvertently post results on the bug tracker, that would be very helpful
[18:17] <agronholm> ok it's done
[18:17] <agronholm> as I suspected, we only got one branch (master)
[18:17] <agronholm> what worries me is that we got all the tags
[18:18] <agronholm> why does that worry me? because some of those tags should be in anonymous branches
[18:18] <xemdetia> yes I will have to find a nice rustic truck with some lovely grafitti for these results to fall out of the back of
[18:19] * gopar (~gopar@c-73-162-171-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #jython
[18:22] <agronholm> well, it's ready for use. let's just not rely on the history being exactly correct...
[18:38] <jimbaker> xemdetia, ;)
[19:03] * gopar (~gopar@c-73-162-171-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:08] <pjenvey_> agronholm - that was a conversion of full-history?
[19:09] <pjenvey_> there's some old branches on there as hg bookmarks
[19:09] <agronholm> pjenvey_: yeah
[19:10] <agronholm> those anonymous branches got taken in but I don't know how they were put together with the master branch
[19:10] <agronholm> this tool relies on bookmarks to point out branches
[19:10] <pjenvey_> did it find the release branches at least?
[19:10] <pjenvey_> they're named
[19:10] <agronholm> no, I should've bookmarked them
[19:11] <agronholm> I can always rerun the export if they're needed
[19:11] <agronholm> it's not necessary for jython3 development though
[19:12] <agronholm> we can always merge the changes into the main repository later
[19:15] * sidrero (~sidrero@cable-static-140-81.teleport.ch) has joined #jython
[19:16] <sidrero> hi
[19:16] <sidrero> I use jython embedded in an eclipse plugin
[19:16] <sidrero> with 2.5.3 it works great
[19:16] <sidrero> I tried now with 2.7.0
[19:17] <sidrero> exactly the same, except replacing the jython.jar
[19:17] <sidrero> it does not work, it complains that module site does not exist
[19:17] <agronholm> which jython jar did you use
[19:17] <sidrero> standalone
[19:18] <agronholm> how are you using it?
[19:18] <sidrero> python.home looks OK, sys.path looks ok
[19:18] <sidrero> I have a toy java program
[19:18] <sidrero> basically I initialize the interpreter
[19:19] <sidrero> and then just print a couple of things
[19:19] <agronholm> pastebin the code please
[19:19] <sidrero> ok
[19:33] * sdough (~sdough@ has left #jython
[19:34] <sidrero> public class SampleHandler extends AbstractHandler {
[19:34] <sidrero> /**
[19:34] <sidrero> * The constructor.
[19:34] <sidrero> */
[19:34] <sidrero> public SampleHandler() {
[19:34] * sidrero (~sidrero@cable-static-140-81.teleport.ch) Quit (Excess Flood)
[19:34] * sidrero (~sidrero@cable-static-140-81.teleport.ch) has joined #jython
[19:35] <sidrero> I don't know if it worked
[19:35] <sidrero> here again
[19:35] <sidrero> public class SampleHandler extends AbstractHandler {
[19:35] <sidrero> /**
[19:35] <sidrero> * The constructor.
[19:35] <sidrero> */
[19:35] <sidrero> public SampleHandler() {
[19:35] <sidrero> }
[19:35] * sidrero (~sidrero@cable-static-140-81.teleport.ch) Quit (Excess Flood)
[19:35] * sidrero (~sidrero@cable-static-140-81.teleport.ch) has joined #jython
[19:35] <sidrero> I can't copy paste, IRC says excess flood
[19:36] <xemdetia> right, use a paste site
[19:36] <sidrero> any suggestion for a paste site?
[19:37] <agronholm> bpaste.net
[19:42] <agronholm> sleep ->
[19:43] <sidrero> here it is
[19:43] <sidrero> https://bpaste.net/show/49c9c964243d
[19:45] <sidrero> let me know through here if you see something
[19:46] <sidrero> I'll check the logs of the channel to see if anybody wrote any suggestiion
[19:49] * gopar (~gopar@c-73-162-171-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #jython
[20:02] <sidrero> a bit cleaner version
[20:02] <sidrero> https://bpaste.net/show/58837efe71c5
[20:23] <jimbaker> sidrero, so lines 114-122 have diagnostic information that should help
[20:23] <jimbaker> in particular, does your jython.jar have site.py in it?
[20:24] <jimbaker> if not, you can always disable with python.import.site=false
[20:24] <jimbaker> as a java property
[20:34] <sidrero> jython.jar does have it
[20:35] <sidrero> everything in those lines looks correct
[20:35] <sidrero> actually, If I run jython in a similar way ,but not inside an eclipse plugin, but just as a java main method it also works with no issues
[20:36] <sidrero> and in jython 2.5.3 it works well even inside an eclipse plugin
[20:36] <jimbaker> sidrero, in the past the site module would not have been imported
[20:37] <jimbaker> but you can import other modules if python.import.site=false?
[20:42] <sidrero> sys I can import, but it fails to import os
[20:44] <jimbaker> sure. the difference is that sys is written in java, os is written in python
[20:44] <sidrero> I see
[20:44] <sidrero> what is the solution?
[20:44] <jimbaker> you may not be able to import other python modules as well. that's my theory here
[20:45] <jimbaker> sidrero, i don't know
[20:45] <sidrero> I can try to import another python module
[20:45] <sidrero> any suggestion?
[20:45] <jimbaker> you could try something like heapq
[20:48] <sidrero> indeed, heapq also fails to import
[20:49] <jimbaker> yeah, i don't know. some problem with the embedding
[20:49] <jimbaker> please file a bug
[20:49] <sidrero> I'll do, thanks jim
[20:49] <sidrero> what does site.py do, by the way?
[20:50] <jimbaker> it supports things like site-packages
[20:50] <jimbaker> sidrero, one other possibility - see if you can embed via clamp
[20:50] <sidrero> it won't work, because what I really need to do is to embedd it into a comercial application
[20:51] <sidrero> that comercial appliation is an eclipse app, and I have to write the jython stuff as eclipse plugin
[20:51] <sidrero> right now the productive version is working OK with jython 2.5.3
[20:51] <jimbaker> yeah, but clamp builds out a jar that you can directly import
[20:52] <sidrero> I would like to move to 2.7, specially when jyni comes out, I need numpy
[20:53] <sidrero> hmm, I have to think about it, but it looks difficult in the way the API of the comercial app is designed
[20:54] <sidrero> basically, they way to extend it is very restrictive
[20:57] <jimbaker> the key thing will be to figure out why jython is unable to see any library file. i don't know what has changed here - this code hasn't been touched other than now doing the import site
[20:57] <jimbaker> but there's some fairly involved code necessary to support standalone jars
[20:58] <jimbaker> see http://bugs.jython.org/issue2143 for thoughts on extending
[21:03] <sidrero> hmm, interestingly os (as an example) is directly in Lib and not in site-packages, Lib is in the path and still it fails to get imported
[21:04] <sidrero> as site.py is also directly in Lib,
[21:04] <sidrero> it seems the problem is in general importing from Lib, even if it is in the python path
[21:05] <jimbaker> sidrero, fwiw, site-packages in not supported for standalone jars
[21:05] <jimbaker> that's the problem raised by issue 2143
[21:05] <sidrero> I see, then no need to use site.py?
[21:05] <jimbaker> well, sure
[21:05] <jimbaker> but as you said, turning off the import site stuff still doesn't help
[21:05] <sidrero> right
[21:06] <sidrero> ok, now I understood the site.py thing at least, and why I need to turn it off in the future, thanks
[21:06] <jimbaker> sidrero, you won't need to turn it off in the future
[21:07] <jimbaker> it just means that you cannot currently import python modules
[21:07] <jimbaker> if you could, site.py would not fail
[21:07] <sidrero> true
[21:07] <jimbaker> it is the import of the site module that is failing. very simple
[21:07] <sidrero> ok, yes, you're right
[21:08] <jimbaker> so separate bug. which hopefully we will get insight into soon!
[21:09] <sidrero> sounds good
[21:12] <sidrero> thanks Jim, xemdetia and agronholm
[21:12] <sidrero> good night
[21:12] <jimbaker> take care!
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