#jython IRC Log


IRC Log for 2015-03-02

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[15:23] <jimbaker> <christianju>, if you do come back: no, it is not possible
[17:37] <jimbaker> agronholm, re david charles question and importing site - it seems to that in these bugs, the Lib directory itself cannot be located
[17:38] <agronholm> jimbaker: I wonder what changed then, between b1 and b3
[17:38] <agronholm> because I'm running b3 standalone in production just fine
[17:39] <agronholm> jimbaker: oh hum
[17:39] <jimbaker> agronholm, i'm not certain when importSite became the default
[17:39] <agronholm> jimbaker: okay, I'm not running the standard standalone version
[17:39] <agronholm> I forgot
[17:39] <agronholm> I had to customize my jar
[17:40] <agronholm> I compiled the .py files to .class and moved them to the root of the archive
[17:49] <jimbaker> makes sense. i think webstart should see some customization in its layout. maybe a pypi package to help automate?
[17:50] <jimbaker> could also do things like remove unnecessary jars - i doubt unicodedata is used widely, except to support packages like requests and pip. but not going to be in web start apps in all likelihood
[17:52] <jimbaker> agronholm, ^^^
[17:53] <jimbaker> agronholm, or maybe it should be in clamp. certainly related to singlejar support
[17:54] <agronholm> I'm not even sure why it fails with web start but not in other environments
[17:54] <jimbaker> so modjy was modified such that it knows about importSite
[17:54] <jimbaker> not certain what the default is now for it
[17:55] <agronholm> it could be made into another build target
[17:55] <agronholm> but that would require compiling the .py files
[17:55] <jimbaker> you mean in ant?
[17:55] <agronholm> yes
[17:55] <agronholm> and I can't get the jython compile thing to work with ant no matter how I try
[17:55] <agronholm> it used to work before, not sure what changed
[17:56] <agronholm> suddenly it just stopped working, it can't find MatchingTask or something
[17:56] <agronholm> which is located in ant's own jar no less
[17:56] <jimbaker> probably it's failing because i don't know the option you are describing :)
[17:56] <jimbaker> so what do you mean, "jython compile"
[17:56] <agronholm> org.python.util.JycompileAntTask
[17:57] <jimbaker> isn't that used to compile the standard library?
[17:57] <agronholm> what do you mean by that?
[17:57] <agronholm> this thing here is the ant equivalent to jython -m compileall
[17:57] <agronholm> it used to work. I used it for deployment for quite a long time.
[17:57] <jimbaker> right. but it's used in the standard build step
[17:58] <agronholm> I will go look at the build file now
[17:59] <jimbaker> i did modify it recently to be more verbose if it failed to compile, but just for Lib compilation
[18:01] <agronholm> q: why is Lib put on the class path for this task?
[18:03] <agronholm> *was
[18:04] <jimbaker> agronholm, i don't know
[18:05] <jimbaker> also, i would assume jycompile or pycompile would be called by full-build. but i don't see it in my manual dependency analysis of build.xml
[18:05] <agronholm> I just called it directly and it works
[18:05] <agronholm> I can't figure out why it doesn't work in my own project anymore
[18:06] <agronholm> I really hate java's class loading system
[18:06] <jimbaker> agronholm, ok. well i don't think we have touched build.xml in any meaningful way for a while
[18:06] <jimbaker> agronholm, but jython should own the classloading for any python modules
[18:07] <jimbaker> i suppose the one exception is if one has clamped them, or have used something similar with proxy debug writes
[18:07] <jimbaker> but that's a real special case
[18:07] <agronholm> I recall getting the exact same error as David Charles
[18:08] <agronholm> and complaining loudly about it here :)
[18:08] <agronholm> in the end I just solved it by building a customized jython jar like I instructed him on the mailing list
[18:10] <jimbaker> agronholm, yeah... my understanding of web start is that it's tricky. you mentioned one point related to site-packages in http://bugs.jython.org/issue2143
[18:11] <jimbaker> i actually was not aware of zip file system providers when you commented on the bug at that time, only subsequently when i reworked the posix module
[18:12] <agronholm> indeed jws is a mess I am looking forward to abandoning entirely
[18:12] <jimbaker> so my feeling is, the best we can do is come up with a good tool to automate this buildout. and removes unnecessary .class files while it's doing so
[18:13] <jimbaker> agronholm, maybe you can help on this tool first? ;) it should be a simple script
[18:13] <agronholm> I can write a script that creates a "jws friendly" jar out of an existing standalone
[18:13] <agronholm> if that's what you want
[18:14] <jimbaker> that's exactly what i want :)
[18:14] <agronholm> alright
[18:14] <jimbaker> it could also be plugged into the clamp pipeline then as well - take the output of singlejar, plug it into this new script
[18:16] <jimbaker> the good thing is that this whole mess in http://bugs.jython.org/issue2143 is probably unnecessary as well. at least without a site-packages knowledgeable filesystem provider :)
[18:16] <jimbaker> for jws
[18:17] <jimbaker> a site-packages aware provider could retain enough data to actually do os.stat and os.listdir support, but without reading the zip file system. just whatever was captured when it was single-jared :)
[18:19] <jimbaker> depends on what the intersection jython jws apps + site-packages introspecting python modules would be (empty set now of course)
[18:35] <agronholm> jimbaker: https://gist.github.com/agronholm/48d5eda810588dfed2db
[18:52] <jimbaker> agronholm, makes sense. is there a minimal webstart app in jython we could put together as well? this would be very helpful if i could test this out myself without having to read up on jws
[18:56] <agronholm> jimbaker: I can put one together, but there's a slight problem
[18:56] <agronholm> JWS *requires* that the jars are signed with a proper code signing key
[18:56] <agronholm> proper obviously meaning that you bought one from a supported vendor
[18:57] <agronholm> I can sign the sample app but iirc my certificate expires in 2016
[18:58] <agronholm> and you won't be able to tinker with it without breaking the signing of course
[18:58] <agronholm> before I sign the jar, I also need to know where it's going to be hosted
[18:59] <agronholm> because the jar needs to include a verbatim copy of the .jnlp file
[18:59] <agronholm> ...now you probably understand why I want to move away from JWS :)
[19:00] <jimbaker> agronholm, ideally we could use something like your jython-swingutils package. it would be awesome to use clamp singlejar to frontend this script, just to show it does work together
[19:00] <agronholm> I'm confused
[19:01] <agronholm> what would we do with jython-swingutils?
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[19:13] <jimbaker> agronholm, ok. well at least i could run your jws app, so that's the best we can do. 2016 expiration is fine, we can always fix
[19:15] <jimbaker> re jython-swingutils - i was just thinking of a JWS app that's put together with a standard setup.py, using pypi packages at it makes sense. to be honest, i don't recall what jython-swingutils actually does, because it's been a very long time since i have done anything in swing
[19:16] <jimbaker> but reviewing the pypi docs about the package, it looks useful for something like this. maybe a fahrenheit to celsius demo, to demonstrate the data binding? something minimal is what i'm suggesting that's all
[19:17] <agronholm> I wrote a sample app for my bachelor's thesis presentation. maybe I can still find it.
[19:20] <jimbaker> agronholm, cool. also, let's just place somewhere under jython.org. i think that's a good place to host it
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