#jython IRC Log


IRC Log for 2014-12-30

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[1:16] <jimbaker> Paladiamors, thanks for the test you submitted - that was very helpful!
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[9:36] <Paladiamors> hi Jim, thanks for getting back me and publishing the fix!
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[17:40] <jimbaker> ebarrett, more work on semantic equivalence - https://hg.python.org/jython/rev/07959ff1d8e9 and https://hg.python.org/jython/rev/ae2a1efe4192 - it's some work to achieve this fiction :)
[17:43] <ebarrett> hey
[17:44] <ebarrett> oh we have found all kinds of madness recently with out python/php composition
[17:44] <ebarrett> :P
[17:44] <agronholm> without?
[17:44] <ebarrett> oops
[17:44] <ebarrett> with *our*
[17:46] <ebarrett> jimbaker: good to hear from you, how's it going?
[17:48] <jimbaker> ebarrett, going well, solving similar madness issues with jython/java :)
[17:50] <jimbaker> hope to have the last beta for jython 2.7.0 out shortly. it's taken too long, but it's almost done. only one more must-fix bug (imho) before the beta, and that's probably 2 lines of code, plus some tests
[17:50] <ebarrett> awesome
[17:50] <jimbaker> http://bugs.jython.org/issue2239
[17:50] <ebarrett> did you resolve the ssl issues in the end?
[17:51] <jimbaker> ebarrett, yes we did. the only thing we don't support (right now) is START_TLS on the server side, and that's because netty's SSL support doesn't allow us to get in early enough
[17:52] <ebarrett> i see
[17:52] <jimbaker> START_TLS is interesting for legacy protocols like ftp, but i also wonder how common it is vs using something more modern like sftp
[17:53] <ebarrett> a lot of mail servers use it i think
[17:53] <jimbaker> in any event - if you're writing a high performance FTP server on java, my first suggestion is not to use python's APIs. use netty
[17:54] <jimbaker> ebarrett, good point
[17:55] <jimbaker> but clients can use START_TLS - it's just a problem that netty's pipeline reads the ciphertext as plaintext while the SSL handler is being added - so a classic race
[17:55] <jimbaker> on the server side
[17:55] <jimbaker> on the client, it already knows it's in SSL, so no problem with its handshaking
[17:56] <ebarrett> ah yes
[17:56] <ebarrett> so unless you are writing a mail server in jython...
[17:56] <jimbaker> using python apis
[17:56] <jimbaker> you are fine
[17:56] <ebarrett> gotcha
[17:57] <jimbaker> not all possible use cases will be supported with 2.7.0, without some porting. usual triage.
[17:58] <jimbaker> ebarrett, so i'm sure you saw the recent discussion on static type annotations for python 3.5?
[18:00] <ebarrett> i did
[18:01] <ebarrett> and I saw you cc'd in ;)
[18:02] <ebarrett> i'm in support of type annotations for library calls, but I'm not sure they will be useful in a more general setting.
[18:02] <ebarrett> i imagine python is too dynamic for good type inference for example
[18:08] <jimbaker> ebarrett, yeah, it's a bit tricky here. first, we need to separate the issue of performance out. i don't think static typing will guarantee anything about the function that's actually being called at a given callsite. just that if it has this type signature, then i can determine that it is statically consistent with the code that is using it
[18:08] <jimbaker> so my foo may not be your foo
[18:09] <jimbaker> on the other hand, any java classfile that's imported into jython can act as a "stub file" for type annotations
[18:13] <ebarrett> (sorry eating dinner, bbl)
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