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[4:44] <Oti> jimbaker, yes. Do you know where the actual sources of the installer currently are?
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[9:39] <agronholm> Oti: the installer sources are in http://hg.python.org/jython/file/83cd10f1826d/installer/src/
[9:39] <agronholm> in other words, under the jython sources in the installer/src directory
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[16:48] <ohumbel> @agronholm - thanks ;-) Oti.
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[18:00] <apollonovich> is there a reason why pkg_resources.py is not bundled with the "standalone" jython jar? It's quite a headache pulling in setuptools as a part of a build process, and it seems terribly brittle to just grab the build system's copy of the file from SYSTEMPYTHON or whatever.
[18:05] <jimbaker> apollonovich, you really want to use something like clamp for this purpose
[18:05] <jimbaker> to build your own standalone
[18:06] <jimbaker> pkg_resources.py is part of what is done with setuptools, generally pip, so it would not be in our standalone jar
[18:07] <apollonovich> I will read up on it. my current build script is something of an atrocity...
[18:07] <jimbaker> clamp needs more work, but it's better than standard such build scripts. and it's supported by the jython devs
[18:07] <apollonovich> yeah, I use pkg_resources for exactly 1 thing: I have large static data blobs in a homegrown python module, which exceed the jvm 64k limit. I use pkg_resources.resource_string to bypass that.
[18:09] <apollonovich> my current approach involves populating a Lib dir in my build directory, and then using "jar uf" to merge it into the jython standalone jar.
[18:09] <apollonovich> it works, but the process of collating the packages is awful, since I can't use pip.
[18:10] <apollonovich> if I don't have a "jython installation", does clamp still work?
[18:11] <apollonovich> I'm doing this from within maven.
[18:41] <jimbaker> apollonovich, probably not until we support venv
[18:41] <jimbaker> you sound like an excellent beta tester of this combination :)
[18:43] <jimbaker> apollonovich, also, just want to make sure this static data limit is still an issue. because for large dicts/lists/sets/tuples of primitives (strings or numbers), we now support much larger literals. since beta 2 i believe
[18:43] <apollonovich> quite possibly. anything that makes this process easier...
[18:43] <apollonovich> huh
[18:43] <apollonovich> I'm not sure.
[18:43] <apollonovich> I refactored the code to use pkg_resources when I was first dipping my toe in the jython pond, using the 2.5.3 that comes with ubuntu
[18:43] <jimbaker> so there any number of packages where this is no longer a problem
[18:44] <apollonovich> I switched to the 2.7 beta after realizing that there were too many 2.7 feautres I couldn't live without (our production python code is all python3, but I retain 2.x compatibility in stuff that needs to run on jython)
[18:44] <jimbaker> again, if your large literal is nested, it's not going to work
[18:44] <apollonovich> I will try it out and let you know.
[18:44] <jimbaker> but most large literals are very simple
[18:44] <jimbaker> apollonovich, cool
[18:44] <apollonovich> it was a very large python list that contains the full set of iso language codes.
[18:45] <apollonovich> I think around 90k total.
[18:45] <apollonovich> it just gets imported as a set, and then used for validity checks.
[18:46] <jimbaker> yeah, so if this is just something like set(["ab", ... "zh", ...]), it's fine
[18:47] <jimbaker> there are still limits, but much much higher than 90k
[18:47] <apollonovich> that would be wonderful. then I'd just need to put my homegrown python libs and my wrapper code into Lib, and I'd be fine...
[18:47] <jimbaker> apollonovich, oh one more thing - it cannot all be one line
[18:47] <jimbaker> then you will kill our parser :0
[18:47] <apollonovich> I mean, going forward, things like clamp are useful, because one thing I want to do is be able to put a requirements.txt-style list of python packages in the buildr buildfile, and have pip bundle them up inthe jars at build time.
[18:47] <apollonovich> all on one line would also kill my editor and my brain, so we be good.
[18:47] <jimbaker> apollonovich, precisely why we wrote clamp
[18:48] <jimbaker> +1
[18:48] <apollonovich> very cool.
[18:48] <apollonovich> I suspect I'll be gradually folding some of this into my process as time permits.
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[19:55] <Oti> jimbaker - I am running the installer junit tests now. 4 of 83 do not yet pass. Then on to the full build ???
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[20:44] <jimbaker> Oti, thanks for taking a look!
[20:44] <Oti> jimbaker, it???s fun so far!
[20:46] <Oti> can I safely use JUnit4 features (I see one tests/java/javatests/Issue1972.java file using the @Test annotation)
[20:46] <jimbaker> Oti, btw, i really enjoyed hanging out with you at europython and making great progress. the only bad thing was it was too short!
[20:46] <Oti> jimbaker, yes it was too short
[20:46] <jimbaker> Oti, please use the latest & greatest for junit, upgrading jars as necessary
[20:47] <Oti> jimbaker, and my writeup about the new pull request ???workflow??? is still missing???
[20:47] <jimbaker> there's no reason not to. actually i would like to look at some additional enhancements in testing support - i'm trying to remember the name of the tool, but specifically around memory leak detection
[20:48] <Oti> jimbaker, I won???t shake all the tests, but one or another Junit4ism might sneak in
[20:48] <jimbaker> Oti, no worries. i'm still catching up on getting some of the work done as well. but it was good meeting up w/ one of my colleagues in europe for a long sprint on a rackspace-specific project, then vacation
[20:48] <jimbaker> Oti, +1
[20:49] <jimbaker> we even made it to a bit of switzerland - we came back through the pass of st bernard
[20:49] <Oti> jimbaker, cool! did you visit the dogs?
[20:49] <jimbaker> no, that would have been fun. the night we were driving back is when it had the really bad rain and a train derailed around zermatt
[20:50] <jimbaker> so maybe not the best timing...
[20:50] <jimbaker> colorado has been especially wet this summer as well
[20:51] <jimbaker> in any event, we are thinking of renting a house for a month next summer in haute-savoie
[20:52] <jimbaker> that's how much we loved the area
[20:53] <Oti> jimbaker, let me know - this would be a nice (motor)bike tour to haute-savoie???
[20:55] <jimbaker> Oti, will do! i especially liked swimming and running around the beautiful lakes there - leman, annecy, bourget. we're thinking annecy
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[20:59] <jimbaker> Oti, btw, we now have our session scheduled for javaone on "openstack on the jvm". i will also be in paris in early nov to do some more work (and advocacy) on this as part of the openstack summit
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[21:43] <Oti> jimbaker, congrats for javaone!
[21:44] <Oti> I???ll be at Devoxx in Antwerp mid of November
[21:58] <jimbaker> Oti, i really like devoxx - tobias and i gave a jython talk/tutorial there back in 2008
[22:00] <jimbaker> Oti, given that i will be in paris nov 3-8 and you will be in antwep nov 10-14, we really should consider meeting up the weekend between
[22:04] <jimbaker> javaone session - mon sept 29 - https://oracleus.activeevents.com/2014/connect/sessionDetail.ww?SESSION_ID=6559
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[22:28] <peke> jimbaker: if you like swimming and running switzerland, you should take a look at http://www.engadinswimrun.ch/
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[22:48] <jimbaker> peke, i might just check it out next year!
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