#jython IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2014-03-21

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[0:13] <jimbaker> some of these socket tests are um, interesting and certainly debateable
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[16:45] <vext01> dont suppose you know if jython is the *only* JVM implementation of Python.
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[17:33] <jimbaker> vext01, well there is zippy
[17:33] <jimbaker> but that's very incomplete
[17:33] <jimbaker> they're also using parts of jython, and i think we share the longterm goal of ideally having zippy become part of jython at some point
[17:34] <jimbaker> there was also some earlier work on using pypy to generate java bytecode for python. that was done by antonio cuni if i'm not mistaken (maybe 5 years ago when it was active)
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[17:57] <vext01> zippy is the truffle implementation, right?
[17:57] <vext01> yeh, its not mature
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[19:31] <penagwin> What is the easiest way to write an anonomous class in Jython?
[19:32] <smaudet> I'm sort of surprised no one ever stuck Cython into JNI
[19:32] <smaudet> That would have seemed to me the most straight forward way of getting Java + Python
[19:33] <smaudet> Although perhaps its not so surprising because that'd be a rather specialist skillset
[19:33] <smaudet> Use your intimate knowledge of C/C++ to get Java working with something so you can use Python.
[19:34] <penagwin> So any idea of putting this into jython? http://hastebin.com/rifugolugu.coffee
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[19:48] <agronholm> penagwin: subclass KSButton and instantiate it
[19:48] <agronholm> that's what it does in Java
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[19:54] <penagwin> what do you mean by instantiate it? Put the added method into the subclass then call super?
[19:56] <penagwin> agronholm,
[19:56] <agronholm> penagwin: why call super?
[19:57] <penagwin> Ohhh. I think I get it now!
[19:57] <agronholm> you aren't calling the superclass method in your paste
[20:03] <smaudet> penagwin: rifugolugu.coffee ?
[20:04] <penagwin> smaudent, Hastebin made the name, And I think It thinks it is coffescript xD
[20:04] <smaudet> Is this CoffeeScript? Or is this just a servlet with a .coffee name?
[20:05] <penagwin> smaudet, It isn't related to either, CoffeeScript based on javascript, both are C like languages like java...
[20:05] <smaudet> penagwin: I think you are highly confused. C is nothing like Java
[20:06] <smaudet> Then again, I'm trying to work out what langauge you are programming in here
[20:06] <smaudet> Java, or Python?
[20:06] <penagwin> smaudent: The structure is.
[20:07] <smaudet> s/smaudent/smaudet/
[20:07] <penagwin> I am trying to program in python. But with a java class.
[20:07] <smaudet> Yeah this code looks confused.
[20:07] <smaudet> there is no new in Python
[20:07] <penagwin> I hadn't ported it yet :P
[20:09] <smaudet> and I think you meant that the semantics, are slightly similar, even then, they are nothing alike.
[20:10] <smaudet> I challenge you to find anything like *(*stuff).type(void *) in Java
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[20:11] <penagwin> "void", the way it acts on the "stuff" object, All of the ")" and "("
[20:12] <penagwin> Find that stuff in lua :P
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[20:12] <smaudet> Ok, so, they all use the '(' symbol, and there is a shared word. Look! def JAVA():
[20:13] <smaudet> Python is Java now :P
[20:13] <smaudet> And Lua is Python
[20:13] <smaudet> the similarity isn't there, you've not programmed in many lanugages.
[20:14] <agronholm> javascript is nowhere near java
[20:15] <smaudet> @agronholm I agree
[20:15] <agronholm> coffeescript is the bastard child of javascript and python
[20:15] <smaudet> ^
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[20:17] <penagwin> smaudet, Assembly, nuff said.
[20:18] * smaudet chortles
[20:18] <smaudet> Come back when you know how computers work.
[20:18] <penagwin> I have programmed in a bunch of languages and can learn new ones fast. Guess I just can't catagorize them! :P
[20:28] <jimbaker> vext01, correct, zippy is very much a set of experiments right now
[20:29] <jimbaker> smaudet, jyni will enable usage of cython w/ jython
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[20:30] <jimbaker> potentially there could be deeper integration. but let's see where jyni goes first
[20:30] <smaudet> jimbaker: understood, just wondering why no one tried to create Jython using JNI
[20:31] <smaudet> s/Jython/a Jython/
[20:31] <jimbaker> smaudet, well it starts from the fact that jython is about 16 years or so (including jpython)
[20:31] <jimbaker> 16 years old that is
[20:33] <jimbaker> but in general - jni is very limited. having said that, there are interesting integrations people have built - http://jepp.sourceforge.net/
[20:33] <jimbaker> or http://jpype.sourceforge.net/
[20:35] <smaudet> So it exists, its just not popular. That's to be expected, JNI does as you say have serious limitations
[20:37] <smaudet> Then again having used CLAMP inside Java-based projects now I'm hesitant to say that one possible solution exists, and that there is not a need for both.
[20:40] <smaudet> Jython itself isn't seamless, but maybe we're just waiting for those tests to pass ;)
[20:41] <smaudet> jimbaker: where did you see the questionable socket tests?
[20:42] <jimbaker> smaudet, re socket tests - right now it's in TestSupportedOptions, some aspects around closing, the lack of socket.dup, and a couple of other places
[20:43] <jimbaker> i did post my most recent gist last night, and i will be revisiting again sometime later today
[20:43] <smaudet> Ah here are the failure
[20:43] <smaudet> s/failure/failures/
[20:44] <mike_af> jimbaker: I think I figured out the bson/struct.unpack issue I was having yesterday. I was reading a multipart message from a zmq socket, and hitting other exceptions as I wrote/tested my code.
[20:44] <jimbaker> i am thinking of rewriting TestSupportedOptions, if only because the test approach is way too complex - i don't like loops in unit tests, because it makes really hard to diagnose failure
[20:44] <jimbaker> and TestSupportedOptions is well beyond some simple loops
[20:44] <jimbaker> mike_af, good to hear
[20:44] <mike_af> jimbaker: I think there were times when part of a multi-part messages was read but the rest wasn't, so then I would restart and read the rest, and the parts would end up being not what I expected
[20:45] <mike_af> It's been working fine now that I ironed the other kinks out
[20:45] <smaudet> Oh boy, getting permissioned denieds on my tests
[20:45] <smaudet> I hate windows acls. X_X
[20:45] <jimbaker> mike_af, sounds like some of my recent work on socket and mixing that with ssl ;)
[20:46] <jimbaker> smaudet, i'm in the process of writing another email re getting a msdn license - it's been 2 weeks since my original requests
[20:46] <mike_af> jimbaker: the benefit is now quite nice because I can interact with data from an otherwise python environment via zmq, and then interact natively with hbase instead of going through thrift
[20:46] <jimbaker> mike_af, yes, this is why we like jython
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[20:47] <smaudet> jimbaker: curious, what do you need the msdn license for?
[20:47] <smaudet> Windows OS?
[20:47] <jimbaker> smaudet, yes. is this no longer necessary?
[20:47] <jimbaker> i'm sort of conditioned to think windows requires a license
[20:47] <smaudet> strictly, yes
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[20:48] <smaudet> yeah I thought I saw this: http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/28/5456374/windows-8-1-with-bing-experiment
[20:48] <smaudet> I've not tried it myself yet, so maybe that's just an upgrade
[20:49] <smaudet> At any rate its possible to obtain it for a VM, for free, for dev purposes
[20:49] <jimbaker> smaudet, ok, i should look into that, since that's my precise use case. just so long as i get a minimal dev env, i'm pretty good
[20:50] <smaudet> I don't know how you plan on running Windows but if you plan going the VM route you could at least get the dev version and then later add an msdn license if necessary
[20:50] <jimbaker> i have no plans on actually running visual studio, or its successor
[20:50] <jimbaker> right, only VM. on my mac
[20:50] <jimbaker> or maybe my ubuntu desktop
[20:50] <smaudet> if there is C code involved, unless you want to use mingw, there's no alternative I'm afraid
[20:51] <smaudet> I didn't think Jython had any C code in it though?
[20:51] <jimbaker> although having C support would be great for testing jyni, that's more than i can stomach ;)
[20:51] <jimbaker> smaudet, we actually bundle jars that have been already built for windows
[20:52] <jimbaker> specifically jffi-x86_64-Windows.jar
[20:52] <smaudet> jimbaker: the versions of jython I have are all built from source, so I didn't think there was any compiler involved.
[20:52] <smaudet> maybe I just missed the cl invocations *shrug*
[20:52] <smaudet> java bytecode compiler of course
[20:52] <smaudet> but
[20:55] <jimbaker> smaudet, jffi-* jars are prebuilt, in extlibs
[20:55] <smaudet> ah
[20:56] <jimbaker> at some point, we will get this cleaned up w/ some sort of maven artifact resolution
[20:56] <jimbaker> do not expect this any time soon ;)
[20:57] <jimbaker> getting back to the earlier question, i really want to make clamp - and some of the other more vapor ware (currently) items in jythontools - fill that role
[20:58] <jimbaker> biab
[21:00] <smaudet> brb myself
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[22:07] <topi`> lots of traffic here today
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[22:10] <topi`> jimbaker: I finished refactoring my "production" code, which means that it's ready to run under twistd, and now I can proceed with the original idea of making a twistd-like servlet w/ clamp :)
[22:10] <topi`> any suggestions for a name? twiservlet?
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[22:46] <jimbaker> topi`, great question!
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[22:52] <jimbaker> topi`, i talked w/ my colleagues about this just now since we are in a meeting
[22:53] <jimbaker> braided, churn, helix, and spinor are some names we came up with
[22:53] <jimbaker> and available on pypi
[22:54] <jimbaker> (friday meetings)
[22:56] <jimbaker> knotty
[22:56] <jimbaker> for the pun lovers
[22:57] <jimbaker> esp since we plan to be using netty....
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