#jython IRC Log


IRC Log for 2013-11-04

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[22:40] <topi`> agronholm: django has something going for it, despite all the architectural flaws - you can easily make a .war out of it ;)
[22:41] <topi`> but, jython does take quite a long time to load django classes, while tomcat starts
[22:41] <agronholm> topi`: sure, but that's only necessary if you're married to a java environment
[22:42] <agronholm> I mean, if front end web servers aren't used anyway
[22:42] <agronholm> otherwise I don't see a point
[22:50] <topi`> django has nice tutorials and other documentation :)
[22:50] <topi`> that said, also pyramid has decent documentation and is of much better breed
[22:51] <topi`> but almost nobody uses pyramid
[22:56] <agronholm> is that a fact?
[22:56] <agronholm> where do you get those numbers?
[22:56] <agronholm> then there's flask
[22:56] <agronholm> and certainly many people use flask
[23:09] <topi`> agronholm: well, by looking at the huge number of django sites, others like pyramid seem pretty small in comparison
[23:09] <topi`> but, agreed, django is the PHP of python world...
[23:09] <agronholm> where do you get a number of django sites
[23:09] <topi`> people flock to it since that's the thing they've "heard of"
[23:09] <agronholm> or pyramid
[23:10] <topi`> by looking at the number of books for sale on amazon about django
[23:10] <agronholm> but that doesn't give you a number of actual django sites
[23:11] <agronholm> I agree there are probably many, but the actual number is still a mystery
[23:11] <agronholm> but saying that nobody uses pyramid is a big stretch
[23:12] <topi`> oh, there's one paperback on amazon about pyramid :)
[23:13] <topi`> well, some folks who used to do Pylons are definitely using it
[23:13] <agronholm> pyramid is relatively new too
[23:13] <topi`> and Pylons was quite popular, and possibly stil is
[23:13] <agronholm> it's been a while since I've heard of anyone still using it
[23:17] <pjenvey> topi` - you can use snakefight to make .war pretty easily w/ pylons/pyramid and also flask with probably minor effort
[23:21] <topi`> ah, spotify is changing from django to pyramid
[23:22] <topi`> pjenvey: interesting.
[23:22] <topi`> googling snakefight just gives me lots of reptile photos ;)
[23:24] <topi`> pjenvey: can it create truly standalone .wars that can just be deployed as dropped-in?
[23:24] <pjenvey> yes
[23:25] <topi`> it's nice that it can autogenerate the modjy stuff in case using paste.app_factory
[23:25] <pjenvey> it'll suck in the jython jar and all of the app's setuptools dependencies
[23:25] <topi`> I did a small pyramid project to test the waters a year ago
[23:26] <topi`> it's somewhat similar to django in the sense that you'll be using pcreate, pserve etc command-line cmds to do stuff, like manage.py
[23:27] <topi`> I think I find django's settings.py slightly *easier* to grasp, however it's just a bunch of globals which is not the best strategy
[23:27] <topi`> I hope Pyramid uses exclusively new-style classes so that Jython doesn't take a speed penalty
[23:28] <pjenvey> snakefight doesn't even require a paste.app_factory, that just gives you one or two less steps
[23:29] <pjenvey> iirc pretty much everything in pyramid is a new style class
[23:29] <pjenvey> can't speak to all the dependencies, like zope.interface
[23:35] <topi`> there's zope.interface 4.0 (which is used by twisted)
[23:35] <topi`> I know that is all new style
[23:52] <peke> new style classes faster on jython than old style? interesting. how big difference? i remember that in 2.2 new style was slower. hmm, should check our code base.
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[23:59] <agronholm> I don't suppose anyone here has worked with TCP keepalives?
[23:59] <agronholm> I'm seeing behavior I don't understand
[23:59] <agronholm> not jython related :)


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