#jython IRC Log

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IRC Log for 2013-10-11

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[13:55] <reenignEesreveR> i'm trying to write to a named pipe. With Python I can do open("/path/to/pipe", "w+") and it works great. With Jython, I get "Illegal seek" when i execute open. Whats the work around?
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[20:29] <topi`> good evening sinistersnare - how's libgdx going?
[20:30] <sinistersnare> topi`: doing well, been busy with school the past week+ so i really have done no programming :p
[20:30] <topi`> evil school!
[20:30] <topi`> well, we all have our banes
[20:30] <sinistersnare> yeah, but after marching band, ill have time to actually do things
[20:31] <topi`> my Jython project has been in hold for a week now. grr.
[20:31] <sinistersnare> yeah, ive been wanting to try and see jython on android, but its been stagnated
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[20:32] <topi`> I guess the default android runtime, Dalvik, isn't really compatible with JVM
[20:32] <topi`> is it?
[20:34] <sinistersnare> well .class files need to be compiled by googles 'dex' to dalvik machine code
[20:35] <sinistersnare> dalvik byte code*
[20:35] <sinistersnare> i think it should work fairly easily, as long as we have the jython jar it shouldnt be hard to integrate into android
[20:35] <jimbaker> topi`, sinistersnare - almost have singlejar support done... fingers crossed!
[20:35] <sinistersnare> but i havent done testing, so dont quote me :p
[20:35] <sinistersnare> jimbaker: yay!
[20:40] <topi`> sinistersnare: the problem with jython is that it compiles python code "on-the-fly" to java classes, before executing those on the JVM, so you'd need to somehow piggyback running 'dex' after class creation
[20:41] <sinistersnare> i thought that java interpreted the jython on the fly
[20:41] <topi`> jimbaker: I think then we need to proceed w/ ssl fixes and getting 2.7b2 out :)
[20:41] <sinistersnare> not compiling it to classes on the fly
[20:42] <topi`> sinistersnare: nope, the python code is translated to java bytecode (.class) and then fed to the JVM
[20:42] <sinistersnare> oh wow
[20:42] <jimbaker> topi`, yeah, i know
[20:42] <sinistersnare> that would make it difficult....whoops....
[20:42] <topi`> sinistersnare: there *is* a dynamic runtime there to watch for all the dynamic aspects of python, hence it's slower than plain java
[20:42] <sinistersnare> makes sense
[20:42] <topi`> jimbaker: did I get it right? :)
[20:42] <topi`> as to not confuse sinistersnare with any false info
[20:43] <sinistersnare> maybe we just need invokeDynamic :p
[20:43] <jimbaker> ok, let me explain what happens
[20:43] <jimbaker> jython compiles python to java bytecode, much like cpython compiles to python bytecode
[20:44] <jimbaker> usually some sort of compiled output is written; for jython, $py.class, for cpython, .pyc
[20:44] <sinistersnare> but CPython does it AOT
[20:44] <sinistersnare> oh ok
[20:44] <jimbaker> one can do ahead-of-time compilation by using compileall
[20:44] <topi`> jimbaker: what happens if jython can't write out the $py.class (readonly filesys etc)?
[20:44] <jimbaker> which both cpython and jython support
[20:44] <sinistersnare> oh ok
[20:45] <jimbaker> compileall is what is used by tools like distutils/setuptools
[20:45] <jimbaker> so when you say, setup.py install, this ensures this compilation happens
[20:45] <sinistersnare> oh ok
[20:45] <topi`> so you get your site-packages full of .pyc files :)
[20:45] <jimbaker> now if you cannot write out $py.class - or .pyc - this means you cannot do ahead-of-time
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[20:46] <jimbaker> which probably also breaks setup.py install, not certain
[20:46] <sinistersnare> but wasnt jythonc deprecated? my jython history is fucked i guess :p
[20:46] <topi`> jimbaker: so it works just like in CPython - the bytecode is created at import time
[20:46] <jimbaker> or by compileall
[20:46] <jimbaker> which actually does not import
[20:46] <topi`> jimbaker: I think setup.py install is screwed in any case, if the user does not have write permission :)
[20:47] <jimbaker> topi`, correct :)
[20:47] <jimbaker> so, so, SO - if you can build everything in advance as java bytecode, it should work on android
[20:47] <jimbaker> this includes proxies
[20:48] <jimbaker> which clamp now supports, but of course they need to be marked up
[20:48] <jimbaker> it should be possible to do this for other proxies... but that's a future step for the clamp project
[20:49] <jimbaker> marked up = __proxymaker__ defined
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[20:54] <sinsnare|away> gotta go, crazy friends :p
[20:56] <topi`> jimbaker: w/ respect to the fixes to twisted, do we get the thread module fixed so that this commit is not necessary: https://github.com/tkanerva/twisted/commit/220c1db6ccd08029d34e7ccf812ada7068d20a16
[20:57] <topi`> (currentThread() is missing ident)
[20:58] <jimbaker> topi`, that's fixed in trunk
[20:58] <topi`> I mean the instance that currentThread() returns :)
[20:58] <jimbaker> right
[20:59] <jimbaker> topi`, i'm planning to sprint on the construction of a twisted reactor on oct 25
[20:59] <jimbaker> this is our fri hackday
[21:01] <topi`> cool. Do you have any Twisted guys to keep in the loop?
[21:01] <topi`> since they're the ones who built the reactors :)
[21:02] <jimbaker> topi`, yeah, i only work w/ a few of course :)
[21:02] <jimbaker> but it be great to have your involvement, if you are interested
[21:03] <topi`> I haven't really looked at the reactor code in twisted, but I know the theoretical background in events ,)
[21:03] <topi`> when I was a kernel / X11 hacker, I did grok the evlib in X11 which is basically an event reactor
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[21:29] <topi`> on an entirely different topic, has there been any work in "cleaning up" the jython modules (like ssl.py) from py2-only syntax?
[21:29] <topi`> I mean things like print x -> print(x) and for k in foo.keys(): -> for k in foo:
[21:30] <topi`> since python 2.7 supports (almost) all of them, it makes a lot of sense to migrate to syntax which works with python 2.7 *and* Py3
[21:30] <topi`> personally, I always write code by default that works both on py2 and py3 (well, except the imports, of course)
[21:45] <vext01> hi
[21:46] <topi`> hello vext01, how's your openbsd jffi project going?
[21:50] <jimbaker> topi`, somewhat
[21:50] <jimbaker> but it has not been a focus. in general, print shouldn't be used in such modules, so if they're there in say jython-ssl, it's for my debugging purposes
[21:50] <jimbaker> and will be gone before any merge into trunk
[21:51] <jimbaker> but i have tried to use stuff like "{}".format(...)
[21:59] <vext01> topi`: havent really worked on it for a while
[21:59] <vext01> been preparing slides for SPLASH
[21:59] <vext01> jimbaker: dont suppose you are going?
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[22:45] <vext01> zzz
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[23:37] <jimbaker> vext01, sadly no
[23:37] <jimbaker> but i'm sure my buddy jeremy siek will be there, given its location
[23:37] <jimbaker> jeremy is interested in python generally and jython specifically; he's at indiana univ, which is quite close
[23:41] <jimbaker> looks like site-packages, and specifically *.pth files, don't see to work when libraries are packaged in jars. so i get to fix another bug in jython
[23:41] <jimbaker> but at least my singlejar support is almost there. really, almost!
[23:53] <jimbaker> topi`, fwierzbicki - i have finally moved clamp development to this new repo: https://github.com/jythontools/clamp
[23:54] <jimbaker> this should be a good place to develop such tooling, regardless of the author

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