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[12:43] <juneau001> jython.org front page updated to include a post regarding 2.7a1 release
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[15:40] <DanC_> 2.7a1 release?! wow... I was only vaguely aware that 2.7 work was going on
[15:41] <DanC_> "I think you should have jumped ahead to Python 3." sigh. you can't please everybody, I guess.
[15:41] <DanC_> nice, level-headed response: http://fwierzbicki.blogspot.com/2012/05/jython-27-alpha1-released.html?showComment=1337287855735#c7493523315550419199
[15:42] <DanC_> pyramid dropped jython support along with 2.5 support; it'll be good to get it back
[16:02] <fwierzbicki> DanC_: ah that is good - 2.7 should leave us compatible with most things for a good while
[16:02] <fwierzbicki> hopefully long enough for the 3.x story to pan out
[16:02] <fwierzbicki> I don't actually think it's going to be *that* bad - it looks like 2.7 is more like 3.x than I originally thought
[16:03] <DanC_> I haven't paid much attention to 3.x; haven't found much motivation to.
[16:03] <fwierzbicki> it's sort of like a glacier - it's coming, it's unstoppable, but it's adoption is slow :)
[16:04] <fwierzbicki> last it's should have been its - English is hard
[16:04] <fwierzbicki> :)
[16:05] <DanC_> not clear to me that it won't just melt. where does it get momentum?
[16:07] <fwierzbicki> DanC_: it gets momentum because 2.7 dev has stopped. Lots of people will ignore it for a long time - but a big part of the core community is behind it. A similar situation happened around 1.5.x -- it took a long time for 2.x to catch on
[16:08] <fwierzbicki> some people still use the last of the 1.5 series
[16:09] <DanC_> hmm... I lived through the 1.5->2.x transition. The library ecosystem was more nimble or less mature or something then.
[16:09] <fwierzbicki> of course for Jython this is good news - we can build on and stabilize 2.7 for a while to come
[16:10] <fwierzbicki> DanC_: I've been following it - it took a couple of years but I think a common strategy has emerged and 3.3 adds some help -- basically it is possible to write a library that runs pretty well with the same source while supporting 2.6, 2.7 and 3.3+
[16:11] <fwierzbicki> I see lots of projects going that route lately
[16:11] <DanC_> the code that I've seen that tries to support 2.x and 3.x is full of ugly little str/bytes/unicode hacks
[16:11] <DanC_> "full" is an exaggeration, but...
[16:11] <fwierzbicki> that is the tough spot for sure
[16:12] <fwierzbicki> I still think it is a question of when and not if -- but when could be many years off yet
[16:12] <fwierzbicki> and of course 2.x code is going to be out there for decades regardless
[16:13] <fwierzbicki> but we'll see - I plan to get a 3.3 out eventually, but I also plan to keep making 2.7 better for a good while post first release
[16:14] <DanC_> hmm... writeable closures... I guess that's a 3.x feature that I care about.
[16:19] <jimbaker> DanC_, 3.3 addresses probably the worst of the unicode/str hacks, http://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.3.html#pep-414-explicit-unicode-literals
[16:35] <DanC_> ah. nice.
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[17:05] <fwierzbicki> yeah - that, PEP 420 and a couple of other things make me think that 3.3 is the right next target
[17:05] <fwierzbicki> oh yeah and importlib
[17:06] <fwierzbicki> the real import semantics are now written in (mostly) pure python now.
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