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[2:51] <oyman> ayo
[2:51] <oyman> who are these internet heros
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[3:00] <agronholm> ?
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[6:55] <itrekkie> hi everyone :) silly question, but what version of python is the current release on par with? I can't seem to find it
[6:56] <itrekkie> ah, looks like at the level of CPython 2.5, just found some infos
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[7:35] <agronholm> py2.5 + support for class decorators
[7:36] <agronholm> I recall there were some other minor differences too
[7:36] <agronholm> but of course jython does not support many os specific features of cpython
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[13:32] <mdemi> I'm looking for the webbrowser module in jython 2.5.2 -- it seems to be gone, though it's still mentioned in http://www.jython.org/docs/library/webbrowser.html. Any pointers?
[14:15] <teralaser> I have this code (Supybot), it runs under Python2.6.2/Debian/sparc, but under Jython/(Windows) Jython complains about a lot of __builtins__ assignments in the modules ? Any clue ?
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[17:31] <fwierzbicki> teralaser: if you are reading the logs, __builtins__ is a CPython implementation detail - if you use __builtin__ instead it should work. See: http://docs.python.org/reference/executionmodel.html#naming-and-binding
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[20:27] <albabosh> Hello ! Can anyone help me on Jython GUI ?
[20:29] <jimbaker> shashank, we should be able to use the same rewriting technique for stuff like sum(xrange(...)) - although we need a more general mechanism to externalize such iterators into for loops so we don't spend a lot of time on translating them
[20:29] <jimbaker> this particular usage was just discussed on #pypy so i'd thought it worthwhile bringing up now
[20:30] <shashank> jimbaker: you are right..
[20:31] <shashank> when I was working on fixing the regression tests this week, I found a particularly _nice_ test case which uses yields inside a for loop
[20:31] <albabosh> I have a source written on Python, it imports wxWidgets, is it possible to run it in Jython /
[20:31] <albabosh> ?
[20:31] <jimbaker> albabosh, not at this time
[20:31] <shashank> the code I have written does not handle those properly
[20:31] <jimbaker> maybe in the future it will be possible to support wxWidgets, but it will require c ext api support
[20:32] <shashank> so I need to write it in a more generic way. maybe we could use that to somehow rewrite iterators as well
[20:33] <jimbaker> shashank, rewriting generators is tough here
[20:33] <jimbaker> since we always know in compilation that it's a generator, let's not do that now
[20:33] <shashank> jimbaker: ahh then my work is simplified :) ok will make that change
[20:33] <jimbaker> i do believe we can prove that an iteration cannot escape (if that's the terminology we should use)
[20:34] <jimbaker> hand waving now, but it seems to me that a loop that's completely contained can be rewritten, but we don't have the scope analysis in place for that anyway
[20:35] <jimbaker> so let's keep it simple for the moment :)
[20:36] <shashank> jimbaker: yeah ok, I did run the perf tests using the optimized "range" function but there are no significant changes
[20:36] <shashank> I am working on including "xrange" in there too, will re-run the perf tests on it and report back
[20:37] <jimbaker> shashank, yeah, that does not surprise me too much - micro-optimizations like this are hard to see in larger tests
[20:37] <jimbaker> but the cool thing about it is that it's possible to have people change the code they write
[20:38] <shashank> yeah that's true
[20:38] <jimbaker> so what would have been in c, java, or cython can be written in python instead
[20:38] <jimbaker> i still think the 20x improvement is significant!
[20:39] <jimbaker> this is exactly where pypy was last year, but we still have a lot more low hanging fruit to use w/ indy
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[20:40] <shashank> jimbaker: yeah
[20:41] <jimbaker> the key to me is getting more rewritten. so gen expressions, any/all/sum/min/max, itertools.izip, zip, and some others should all work
[20:43] <jimbaker> note that the rewriting for any/all/sum/min/max is for when they *consume* iterators, so different than the other builtin case we were looking at
[20:45] <jimbaker> shashank, of course the challenge here is that it's only we start with well known base iterators that this will work - or we have type specialization info available, either from observation or gradual typing
[20:45] <jimbaker> so maybe sum(xrange(...)) is just too specific
[20:45] <jimbaker> for now
[20:46] <jimbaker> shashank, in other news - i had a very productive saturday thinking through getattr, and i think i have a good scheme for that. more on that friday i think, just getting the design together now in a doc
[20:47] <albabosh> Hello, can anyone tell how to import wxWidgets lib into Jython?
[20:50] <shashank> jimbaker: great!
[20:53] <albabosh> Is there M2crypto lib supported in Jython&
[20:53] <albabosh> ?
[20:54] <jimbaker> shashank, one thought on compiling generators. i wonder how much performance could be improved by simply special casing yield for the case of one or two yield points
[20:54] <jimbaker> albabosh, i suspect not either. bouncy castle is very good
[20:55] <jimbaker> albabosh, you may want to look at a strategy of combining cpython and jython code together
[20:56] <jimbaker> albabosh, execnet is good (but GPL). agronholm likes pyro, iirc
[20:56] * albabosh slaps jimbaker around a bit with a large trout
[20:57] <jimbaker> shashank, here's why. we know that large switch statements don't inline very well. this would seem to be especially problematic for use in an iterator
[20:58] <jimbaker> on the other hand, i suspect the jvm has good support for inlining iterables
[20:58] <jimbaker> so if we could make the average generator look a little less difficult to work with, it might inline much better
[20:58] <jimbaker> just a very weak hypothesis, but there might be something there
[20:59] <albabosh> jimbaker, I want to run the original source without rewriting it
[20:59] <jimbaker> albabosh, i don't think that's going to happen. sorry.
[21:00] <jimbaker> we have some good ideas on how to avoid doing so in the future, but the cure is not easy
[21:00] <jimbaker> contributions of course welcome! ;)
[21:01] <jimbaker> basically we need implementation of c ext api support. then your goal will be realized. it's probably a 6-month fulltime project however
[21:01] * zz_Torpeo is now known as Torpeo
[21:03] <jimbaker> albabosh, i do see this eventually happening, but probably a year from now
[21:03] <agronholm> jimbaker: I never said anything to that effect
[21:03] <agronholm> I'm involved with RPyC
[21:03] <agronholm> pyro seemed obsolete to me
[21:03] <jimbaker> agronholm, sorry yet another good choice
[21:05] <albabosh> jimbaker, I need M2Crypto, wxPython and APSW modules in Jython
[21:10] <pjenvey> albabosh - and we need a CPyExt implementation =]
[21:12] <agronholm> albabosh: why do you need those in jython
[21:12] <agronholm> why can't you just use them in cpython
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[21:14] <jimbaker> pjenvey, we still may get zack from boeing interested in helping on the cpython ext api (or do we just call it ABI now?)
[21:14] <jimbaker> so that might get us there faster, we will see
[21:14] <pjenvey> jimbaker - yes that would be great, have you had any further correspondence with him
[21:16] <jimbaker> pjenvey, yes, but still waiting on boeing legal... i will ping him again
[21:17] <agronholm> boeing? :)
[21:18] <jimbaker> one of several fine large companies using jython daily
[21:18] <jimbaker> not to mention govt agencies, research labs, etc, etc
[21:18] <pjenvey> we ran into zack at pycon, during the jython BoF
[21:18] <jimbaker> as i recall, they have 20 people who principally work in jython
[21:21] <albabosh> agronholm, I have a source written for cpython (rather large one, not written by me), it runs well on windows and linux, I would like to compile it into .jar file and run it using "Java web Start"
[21:22] <agronholm> why jws -- I can see the deployment benefits but it would be quite problematic to try to get that to run in java
[21:22] <agronholm> besides you would still need platform specific support libraries
[21:24] <albabosh> agronholm, deployment benefits are the main reason (i see APSW is not platform specific, am I right ?)
[21:26] <albabosh> agronholm, is it possible to code a "wx to swing" binding ?
[21:26] <agronholm> unlikely
[21:30] <albabosh> agronholm, I have found a wx4j library, but it works with pure java, not with jython
[21:30] <agronholm> why not with jython?
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[23:07] <jimbaker> shashank, this paper looked interesting - it was referenced by the other paper shared w/ us by jeremy - http://www.cs.umd.edu/~jfoster/papers/popl11.pdf
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