#jython IRC Log (v0.9)

Index

IRC Log for 2011-03-14

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[11:15] <juneau001> How did the Jython BoF @ Pycon go?
[13:22] * yyamano (~Adium@conference/pycon/x-ilbgvqwvjbcdaitp) has joined #jython
[13:31] <juneau001> I am working on django-jython issues at this time, but if I can help out with 2.6 somewhere then please let me know. I plan to spend some time with both jython and django-jython during the sprint.
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[14:55] <pjenvey> mornin' sprinters and others
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[14:57] <agronholm> hi
[14:57] <agronholm> I'm sprinting remotely on marrow.mail, but I wanted to see how jython is doing too
[14:58] <agronholm> I'm still hoping that you decide to go 2.7 and not 2.6
[14:58] <pjenvey> yyamano is sprinting on cjkcodecs
[14:58] <pjenvey> i'm sprinting on wtf happened to my jenkins instance
[14:58] <pjenvey> for now
[14:58] <agronholm> jenkins?
[14:58] <pjenvey> http://bob.underboss.org:8080/
[14:58] <pjenvey> it's up right now but it's being very flakey
[14:59] <agronholm> is this a continuous integration tool?
[14:59] <pjenvey> yea
[14:59] <agronholm> ok
[14:59] <pjenvey> it reads the junit xml our regrtest can generate
[14:59] <pjenvey> as wlel
[14:59] <pjenvey> so you can take a look at many of the current 2.6 test failures on trunk from it
[14:59] <agronholm> anyway, looking at the list of changes in 2.7, most of them involved the stdlib
[15:00] <pjenvey> my thinking is, 2.6 will get out quicker than a 2.7
[15:00] <agronholm> grammar changes should be minimal
[15:00] <agronholm> I'm mostly thinking of the set literals feature
[15:00] <agronholm> then there's memoryview, which probably can't be supported anyway
[15:00] <pjenvey> and I'm not sure 2.7 is *that* important for jython, we are eager to work on 3. I somewhat don't expect to see many libs in the future requiring 2.7 as a minimum requirement, especially if python 3 gets some traction
[15:01] <pjenvey> but we'll see how that goes..
[15:01] <agronholm> yeah but jython 3 is likely much farther away
[15:01] <agronholm> going to 2.7 would, in my opinion, require just a minimal amount of extra effort
[15:01] <agronholm> all of which would go towards the eventual jython 3
[15:02] <agronholm> since they are features backported from there
[15:03] <agronholm> this is important to discuss now since the first thing that happens here is likely the reimporting of the CPython stdlib into Jython
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[15:14] <juneau001> Sprinting today...working on django-jython issue that I think may be an underlying Jython issue
[15:14] <juneau001> http://code.google.com/p/django-jython/issues/detail?id=58
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[15:15] <juneau001> Basically, under Jython 2.5.2 when using runserver with Django-Jython, the CONTROL-C key bindings do not work...there is no way to end the interactive session
[15:15] <juneau001> On windows
[15:15] <juneau001> Works fine on *nix boxes
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[15:18] <pjenvey> agronholm - yea, we've discussed it a couple times before too
[15:19] <pjenvey> we kind of already decided on 2.6
[15:19] <pjenvey> those are good points though
[15:19] <pjenvey> the 2.7 features being 3 features can go both ways, as we do 3 we can consider applying those for a 2.7
[15:20] <agronholm> it's the timeframe I'm concerned about
[15:20] <pjenvey> it's also possible we may not even do a 2.7
[15:20] <pjenvey> if 3 is in an ok state when we release a jython 3
[15:21] <pjenvey> I also think we have more 'carrots' to entice people to move to 3, the main complaint with migrating to CPython 3 is the lack of them
[15:21] <pjenvey> the big str/unicode change is much more attractive on the jvm
[15:21] <pjenvey> we also could break a lot more stuff while radically changing the code base to require Java 7 (and invoke dynamic) as a minimum
[15:22] <pjenvey> i suppose we could do that for 2.7 as well but another 2.x would probably prefer more backwards compat than less
[15:22] <pjenvey> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.jython.devel/5236 is one of the older threads discussing the pros/cons too
[15:25] <pjenvey> i guess with going to 2.6, yes we are behind a bit with 2.x, but then I think we can get closer to compatibility parity with cpython 3 quicker?
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[16:56] <jimbaker> agronholm, at pycon we basically agreed to add some of the easy 2.7 features into our 2.6
[16:56] <jimbaker> set literals were one of them
[16:56] <agronholm> what are the hard ones then?
[16:56] <jimbaker> :)
[16:56] <agronholm> memoryview is probably impossible to do
[16:56] <agronholm> what about the rest?
[16:57] <jimbaker> agronholm, memoryview is important and should be doable
[16:57] <jimbaker> that's actually important for the cextapi support
[16:57] <jimbaker> aka ABI
[16:57] <jimbaker> (application binary interface)
[16:58] <jimbaker> re hard ones - i don't know. i do know that it's quite easy to spend too much time on getting features done and not getting the release out. so hence our feeling of having 2.6 sooner than a later 2.7
[16:59] <jimbaker> but for set literals - of course we should do them. we got to throw in a few fun features like that
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[17:03] <agronholm> so which 2.7 features will be left out then?
[17:05] <jimbaker> agronholm, again, i think it's going to be - what 2.7 features do we want to implement
[17:05] <jimbaker> for the 2.5 release, i really liked namedtuple - i even talked about them at jython. they were trivial to add, so i added them
[17:05] <jimbaker> talked about them at *pycon* :)
[17:05] <agronholm> 2.7 doesn't have a lot of new features outside of the standard library
[17:06] <agronholm> set literals and memoryview are perhaps the most prominent ones
[17:06] <jimbaker> mutable ast support was harder, but it supported sympy and mako. this was stdlib
[17:07] <jimbaker> there was one more important 2.6 feature that i'm forgetting
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[17:13] <agronholm> jimbaker: the issue here is that the real nice goodies of 2.7 are mostly in its stdlib
[17:13] <agronholm> which we'd essentially get for free
[17:13] <agronholm> but not if the 2.6 stdlib is used
[17:14] <agronholm> but if the team has already decided on 2.6, then I'm wasting my breath I suppose
[17:15] <jimbaker> agronholm, sure, assuming they're written in python. we just don't know w/o doing the analysis
[17:16] <agronholm> sounds like something that should be done before making the final decision
[17:16] <jimbaker> i am encouraged just how much of 2.6 is already working, although the skips cover some big missing gaps
[17:17] <agronholm> from __future__ import unicode_literals <- my favorite 2.6 new feature for jython
[17:18] <jimbaker> agronholm, agreed, that will be nice
[17:21] <jimbaker> now i remember - we also added support for class decorators in jython 2.5
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Index

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