#jython IRC Log (v0.9)


IRC Log for 2010-07-20

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:06] * zooko (~user@97-118-89-180.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #jython
[0:58] <tristanbuckner> is jythonc still part of the standard jython install?
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[1:01] <tristanbuckner> or more importantly, does it still even exist?
[1:03] <agronholm_> it's gone forever
[1:03] <agronholm_> what did you need it for?
[1:04] <agronholm_> there are workarounds to get the same functionality
[1:05] <tristanbuckner> I'm demoing jython to my java developer coworkers and I wanted to implement an interface in jython and then import that implementation back into java
[1:06] <tristanbuckner> so I want a jar I guess
[1:06] <agronholm_> you can't import such implementations directly to java
[1:07] <agronholm_> where are you running the jython interpreter?
[1:07] <tristanbuckner> did that used to be possible in 2.2 jythonc?
[1:07] <agronholm_> I don't know, I started with 2.5
[1:07] <tristanbuckner> I was following this page: http://www.jython.org/archive/22/jythonc.html
[1:08] <tristanbuckner> it has a whole funky method sig doc string system
[1:08] <tristanbuckner> which seemed kind of cool
[1:08] <tristanbuckner> in a funky way
[1:08] <agronholm_> you can implement a java interface in a python, but to use it in Java code, you need to either call java code from python code or invoke a python function through the interpreter
[1:08] <agronholm_> (and then do a typecast)
[1:09] <tristanbuckner> ah
[1:09] <tristanbuckner> not quite as slick
[1:10] <agronholm_> there were python features added that made it impossible to convert the code to .java
[1:11] <agronholm_> there will be a new mechanism to create top level java classes with Python (as I understand)
[1:11] <agronholm_> they won't be .java but .class
[1:12] <tristanbuckner> I had the impression jythonc generated .class files and not .java files
[1:13] <agronholm_> no no, the jython interpreter generates .class files from .py
[1:13] <agronholm_> jythonc was specifically made to convert .py to .java
[1:13] <agronholm_> jython -m compileall . will still compile all python code to .class in the current directory
[1:13] <agronholm_> a lot of people seem to have that misconception
[1:35] <jimbaker> the clamp project will replace jythonc; but in this use case, it will automate the construction of object factories
[1:36] <jimbaker> so what this means is that you will be able to import in python code as if it were java code
[1:36] <tristanbuckner> that will be cool. how's the progress?
[1:37] <jimbaker> it's been stalled unfortunately. charlie groves did a lot of work on it, i will be taking it over once we get 2.5.2 out
[1:38] <jimbaker> however, it will be a completely separate project, which can be installed through standard tools (easy_install or pip)
[1:39] <jimbaker> right now, if you want to do something like this - you need to write the desired java proxies - what will the java side look like, how does it import, etc - then hook up to python code via an "object factory" (as described in our jython book)
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[1:43] <tristanbuckner> I'll take a look at that.
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[23:04] <headius> hey hey
[23:04] <headius> anyone around interested in jline
[23:04] <agronholm> what is it
[23:04] <headius> java readline emulator
[23:04] <agronholm> jython sure could use better command line editing
[23:05] <agronholm> the current one sucks balls
[23:05] <agronholm> and ipython doesn't work on it either :<
[23:06] <sabi> well, it uses jline now iirc.
[23:06] <agronholm> why does it suck so badly then
[23:06] <agronholm> jline issues?
[23:29] <jimbaker> agronholm: as i understand it, jline does not support a complete readline emulation. a number of people have looked at it, but not yet successfully
[23:29] <jimbaker> in terms of ipython support, that is
[23:30] <jimbaker> which is rather ironic since ipython support was something we were initially trying to get running, but it proved harder
[23:31] <jimbaker> looks like someone did put together a patch set for this - http://bugs.jython.org/issue1133
[23:32] <jimbaker> almost exactly one year old - it would be nice to try again - if we could get it in 2.5.2, that would be much appreciated
[23:34] <jimbaker> however, one more thing - it needs to be done with respect to jline. no way are we importing in gnu stuff and changing our license :)
[23:44] <jimbaker> headius: nice post on c extension support in jruby. also i enjoyed reading the java memory introspection articles, they are of course directly applicable to jython too
[23:44] <jimbaker> are you meeting up with thobe in portland?
[23:47] * nandoflorestan (~nandoflor@c9063272.virtua.com.br) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:47] <headius> sorry, I stepped away
[23:48] <jimbaker> perfectly ok to me, i like to use irc as an async channel :)
[23:50] <jimbaker> headius: what issues are you seeing in current jline? it seems to work fine to me, including unicode support, although we need to start enabling its completer functionality
[23:50] <headius> so yeah...I posted a bit to the jline list about the state of all the forks
[23:51] <headius> there seems to be a pretty good one that has one regression we can probably sort out
[23:51] <headius> there are something like seven forks on github that appear to have commits
[23:51] <headius> sigh
[23:51] <jimbaker> right, as i understand it, we just simply pulled in the jruby version of the fork as of probably jython 2.5.0 - i think pjenvey did that
[23:52] <headius> jimbaker: primarily I just want a handful of patches that have been applied various places, and I don't think the repository on SF is as complete as some of these forks
[23:52] <headius> so we need to finally bless one of them and go with it
[23:53] <headius> jimbaker: re C extensions....yeah, fun stuff, and it's actually making progress
[23:53] <headius> and I did meet up with thobe last night at the scala event
[23:54] <jimbaker> cool about c extensions - i talked with fijal from pypy about their work, it seemed like it was actually pretty reasonable
[23:54] <jimbaker> i don't know how well behaved ruby c extensions are however compared to python, however
[23:55] <jimbaker> the biggest issue fijal saw was with respect to misbehaved object ref borrowing
[23:56] <jimbaker> headius, i think in your post you mentioned limiting concurrency - does jruby have to specifically go into a special mode when using c extensions?
[23:57] <headius> I think we have a GIL-like thing around the call-out to C
[23:57] <jimbaker> because the pypy experience was that they only had to implement the GIL for the C parts, but no impact on python/java code


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