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[1:44] <agronholm> finally in Montr??al
[2:03] <jimbaker> agronholm, enjoy!
[2:04] <agronholm> yeh...too many important people are not showing though
[2:04] <agronholm> do you happen to know if any other jython folks will be here?
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[2:14] <agronholm> and I am fighting a battle against the hotel's Internet service
[2:14] <agronholm> if I connect my WiFi, my laptop's connections die
[2:14] <agronholm> I've spoken to two technicians already, they have no clue what's going on
[2:15] <agronholm> fwierzbicki: you coming/here already?
[2:16] <fwierzbicki> agronholm: sorry couldn't make it this year :(
[2:17] <agronholm> meh, that's one more who isn't coming :(
[2:18] <fwierzbicki> yeah - I'm pretty bummed - I haven't completely missed a pycon in many years
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[2:30] <chrismsn1> hi
[2:30] <chrismsn1> having a problem with jython 2.7b1
[2:31] <chrismsn1> I want to read in an xml string and prettyprint it, and am using minidom in cpython
[2:31] <chrismsn1> in cpython, minidom does not expand entities. In the jython implementation, it does. any idea how to work around this nicely?
[3:01] <whg> jimbaker: So if I put the class definition in the __init__.py of the jythonpoc package, the class files get bundled in the jar. If I put the code in a module in that package, it doesn't get included.
[3:02] <whg> jimbaker: Also, any method I want to use from Java needs to be defined on a Java interface, is that right?
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[3:56] <jimbaker> zz_whg, correct - it needs to be part of the definition of that java interface or class the python class is extending - that's how java knows how to call your code
[3:57] <jimbaker> zz_whg, re class definitions - it does need to be importable, since that's how we can trigger the construction of the java proxies
[3:58] <jimbaker> i will take a look at more interesting usages i have done with clamp - that example clamped project is obviously very simple
[3:58] <jimbaker> zz_whg, one example - https://github.com/jythontools/fireside/blob/master/fireside/servlet.py
[3:59] <jimbaker> zz_whg, another example - https://github.com/rackerlabs/romper/blob/master/setup.py
[3:59] <jimbaker> note this line - https://github.com/rackerlabs/romper/blob/master/setup.py#L13
[4:00] <jimbaker> explicitly indicating the specific module to be clamped, so that it can be imported, then clamped
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[12:34] * zz_whg is now known as whg
[12:42] <whg> jimbaker: D'oh
[12:42] <whg> jimbaker: I left that 'clamped' when I copy-pasta'd your setup.py from clamped
[12:43] <whg> jimbaker: And does Jython need to be able to import the interface I'm implementing? (I'm guessing yes, but hoping no for simplicity's sake.)
[12:56] <jimbaker> whg, yes, it needs to be able to import
[12:57] <jimbaker> the java proxy that is built has to have those methods w/ full type signatures AND it must implement any necessary java interfaces or extend a java class
[12:57] <whg> jimbaker: You guys and your logical design decisions
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[12:57] <jimbaker> whg, indeed :)
[12:58] <whg> jimbaker: Did you guys discuss http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3107/ back when that happened?
[12:59] <whg> I sort of ignored it, but I wasn't particularly interested in Jython at the time
[13:00] <jimbaker> whg, yes, i was hoping it was going to be in python 2.7
[13:00] <jimbaker> but it didn't go in
[13:00] <jimbaker> a good reason for jython 3.x
[13:01] <whg> Yeah
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[13:02] <jimbaker> it's an open question we are exploring how much type inference information clamp can provide to its proxied code
[13:02] <jimbaker> (that's when i put on my research hat)
[13:02] <whg> jimbaker: How big an impact is 3.x going to be on Jython? Some of the "hard" parts of porting should be basically free, right?
[13:02] <jimbaker> correct
[13:03] <whg> jimbaker: And type inferencing is awesome
[13:03] <jimbaker> whg, something i have my students implement in the university course i teach
[13:04] <whg> I certainly never had a course like that back in the day
[13:04] <jimbaker> whg, it
[13:04] <agronholm> pjenvey: I don't suppose you're @ pycon?
[13:04] <jimbaker> is actually a required course. i understand it's considered to be somewhat tough ;)
[13:04] <whg> jimbaker: I was CmpE, so my required CS load basically stopped after compilers
[13:05] <jimbaker> i teach principles of programming languages, which is right before compilers in our sequence
[13:05] <whg> (which they called "Languages and Translation" for reasons I can only guess at; we had to implement a compiler with optimizations at the end)
[13:05] <jimbaker> but this is not a survey of PL
[13:06] <whg> jimbaker: Do you get into continuations and call/cc etc. ?
[13:06] <jimbaker> instead it's an exploration of formal syntax & semantics, which happens to be super pragmatic because we teach functional programming
[13:07] <jimbaker> whg, yes
[13:07] <jimbaker> whg, sorry, got to run - or in my case, hike. back in a couple of hours!
[13:08] <whg> jimbaker: Have fun.
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[17:10] <pjenvey> agronholm - I'm missing this year, unfortunately
[17:27] <agronholm> so nobody else from the jython team is present? that sucks
[17:30] <jimbaker> agronholm, yeah, sorry about that
[17:32] <jimbaker> in my case, i didn't get my presentation accepted, so it was difficult to get travel justification
[17:33] <jimbaker> hopefully next year or maybe europython, given the recent progress
[18:02] <whg> jimbaker: So, slow and steady wins the race, I guess.
[18:02] <whg> Now I'm trying to use my properly clamped class (that implements the relevant interface) class
[18:02] <whg> But getting errors about PyProxy, which I'm pretty sure is related to the jython jar not being on my classpath
[18:03] <whg> Because I'm not sure where the jython-socket-reboot dev build put it
[18:04] <whg> Any chance I could just the singlejar command to have it packaged into the other JAR rather than having it be a separate dependency?
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[18:18] <whg> BTW, discovered there's a separate jar-building task in the build.xml file
[18:18] <whg> Trying that option out now
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[20:11] <whg> Does Jython require Java7 yet?
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[20:16] <whg> jimbaker: When I instantiate my clamped class, I get this stacktrace https://gist.github.com/anonymous/4375e2c5699037e1c181
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[20:26] <jimbaker> whg, looks like it's not finding the actual python class
[20:26] <jimbaker> whg, trunk/beta2 requires java 7
[20:26] <whg> I think I'm on b1
[20:26] <whg> (as far as the mvn dependency goes)
[20:27] <whg> My system Java is 7
[20:27] <whg> I thought I saw some weird log messages about 6, but I'm running everything in 7, so far as I can tell
[20:28] <jimbaker> whg, oh... you really cannot use b1
[20:28] <whg> is b2 in central?
[20:28] <jimbaker> whg, you really want this branch
[20:28] <jimbaker> https://bitbucket.org/jimbaker/jython-socket-reboot
[20:28] <jimbaker> since it also supports pip
[20:28] <whg> That's what I'm using to build the JAR
[20:29] <whg> But I can't get it built to a full-on "maven artifact" state
[20:29] <jimbaker> but beta 1 is not going to work for sure
[20:29] <whg> So for the "integration" stage, I was trying to sneak by
[20:31] <jimbaker> yeah, sorry - there have been numerous fixes since beta 1 to make clamp work
[20:32] <jimbaker> including a key piece to fuse together how java classes work with metaclasses
[20:32] <whg> Ah
[20:33] <whg> OK, will try dumping the jython-dev.jar into my app and seeing if that will work
[20:33] <jimbaker> ok... no guarantees :)
[20:33] <whg> hehe
[20:33] <jimbaker> you still want the python std lib up-to-date
[20:33] <whg> Well, -b2 still isn't in central, and I already know I couldn't figure out how to do a "full-build", so this is sort of my current best shot
[20:34] <whg> Is the std lib not up to date in the dev builds?
[20:34] <whg> (sorry, my brain is mush this afternoon, and no amount of tea or coffee has fixed it. Long week)
[20:35] <jimbaker> well jython-dev.jar doesn't include the stdlib
[20:36] <jimbaker> it's in separate files, unlike say the standalone
[20:37] <jimbaker> that's why i think you're going to best off just building from jython-socket-reboot branch - it includes pip/requests/ssl support, and of course directly supports clamp
[20:37] <jimbaker> or wait a couple of weeks - we will have a beta 3 hopefully by then :)
[20:39] <whg> jimbaker: Build the standalone jar from that branch?
[20:39] <whg> Because that's what I'd ideally like to do
[20:39] <whg> I just couldn't figure out how to tell it I didn't give a flying leap about informix
[20:39] <jimbaker> whg, right, that's a problem for sure in our full build
[20:40] <jimbaker> so if you use clamp with singlejar (jython setup.py singlejar), you get a standalone, with everything packaged
[20:40] <jimbaker> add a __run__.py to it, it's directly runnable with -jar
[20:41] <jimbaker> so there's no need i think for a full build in this case
[20:41] <whg> The singlejar includes Jython?
[20:41] <jimbaker> yes, that why the magic works :)
[20:41] <whg> Yes yes yes
[20:41] <whg> Now to see why that errored out before
[20:42] <whg> (hopefully because I had it in a borked state)
[20:42] <jimbaker> no worries
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[21:34] <jimbaker> so this nice - europython has accepted my talk proposal "scalable realtime architectures in python"
[21:34] <jimbaker> looking forward to being at europython this summer!
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